{"id":25505,"date":"2025-03-10T16:26:09","date_gmt":"2025-03-10T13:26:09","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.tkp.org.tr\/?p=25505"},"modified":"2025-03-10T18:17:08","modified_gmt":"2025-03-10T15:17:08","slug":"interview-with-kemal-okuyan-on-solution-process-in-kurdish-issue-this-is-outright-ottomanism","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.tkp.org.tr\/en\/agenda\/interview-with-kemal-okuyan-on-solution-process-in-kurdish-issue-this-is-outright-ottomanism\/","title":{"rendered":"Interview with Kemal Okuyan on Solution Process in Kurdish Issue: This is outright OTTOMANISM"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><strong>From the Turkish-Islamic synthesis to the Turkish-Islamic-Kurdish synthesis&#8230;\u2028<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>This is outright OTTOMANISM<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nowadays, everyone asks everyone else: &#8220;Do you support or oppose the new Solution Process?&#8221;. So, let&#8217;s start from here: How does TKP view this new process?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Each time a new political agenda occurs, our people are bombarded with such questions, and the essence of the matter is missed. I&#8217;ll say this: This is an outright misleading question. Trying to answer this question would only mean submission to the false and mutually orchestrated antagonism plotted by those who point fingers and say, &#8220;You made a deal with a terrorist organization&#8221; and those who say, &#8220;Do you oppose brotherhood?\u201d. TKP does not yield to this false antagonism. But we are no fence-sitters, either. Regarding the essence of the issue, TKP is a side openly and unambigiously.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><strong>But still, don&#8217;t you think the question &#8220;Do you support the Solution Process?&#8221; merits an answer?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>No, it does not. For years, we maintained that &#8220;this system cannot solve any major issue,&#8221; including the Kurdish question. Our understanding of the Kurdish question differs from many other political actors. We do not have a shared understanding of the Kurdish question with the actors involved in the solution process, such as AKP, MHP (fascist party), DEM (political party of the Kurdish movement), \u0130mral\u0131 (refers to \u00d6calan, prisoned leader of PKK), and Kandil (refers to current armed leadership of PKK). This has always been the case. Consequently, their analysis and proposed solutions fall far from our perspective. But, of course, the issue also has another dimension, often referred to as &#8220;conflict,&#8221; &#8220;terrorism,&#8221; or &#8220;war.&#8221; Tens of thousands of people have lost their lives in this country, pain has evolved into enmity across the country, chauvenist stances have solidified, the working class has been divided, and the shadow of this situation has loomed over the political sphere. Of course, it would only be absurd to oppose any changes to this situation. Any stance against talks, agreements, and reconciliations, whatever they are called, is meaningless.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><strong>But what if the agreement yields a negative outcome for our country and people?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>That&#8217;s what they should be discussing. They should approach the issue from this perspective. Objections should be shaped on this basis, and those supporting the process should take a stance according to the desired outcome. Otherwise, opposing the process with arguments like &#8220;\u00d6calan will be freed&#8221; or &#8220;they will issue a general amnesty&#8221; is absurd. Similarly, criticizing the DEM for having negotiated with AKP and MHP has already gone beyond the point of relevance. We have more profound problems.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>But DEM is ultimately a Party that positions itself on the &#8220;left,&#8221; or at least includes leftist elements. Isn&#8217;t it strange that they suddenly made friends with Devlet Bah\u00e7eli, leader of a nationalist, racist Party? It&#8217;s not something easy to swallow for a revolutionary.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>They&#8217;ll come to terms with it. Most of them, anyway. Because it is not about shaking hands with Devlet Bah\u00e7eli. Of course, handshakes are bound to happen at the end of a conflict. It&#8217;s pointless to dwell on these things. There were major issues utterly unacceptable for a leftist, but they&#8217;ve gone well beyond them now. The opposition to the republic, embracing a figure like Sheik Sait (a feudal Kurdish figure who led a reactionary uprising against the Republic), and alliance with the US have all been embraced. So, for Devlet Bah\u00e7eli to suddenly become the only issue would seem strange.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><strong>So, let me put this in this way: What&#8217;s TKP&#8217;s concern? In other words, why does TKP not support this process?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>It&#8217;s very simple. This is called a process for a reason. The &#8220;solution&#8221; part was removed, and it\u2019s no longer called an initiative, but when something is labeled as a process, everyone gets on board. But every process has its direction, and our objection is to that direction.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nothing has been disclosed yet, so how can you object to the direction? There is no content yet.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Yes, in the previous process, TKP\u2019s first demand was \u201cto conduct the talks openly,\u201d and it\u2019s still the same now. The issue has become strange, with claims of \u201cno negotiations or bargaining this time\u201d. Let\u2019s be convinced of this for a moment and acknowledge that even a table was not set in this process. So the question we need to ask is: What&#8217;s the meeting point of the actors of the process? I mean politically and ideologically. Then, we would have plenty of reasons to oppose this process. Allow me to list them. This process brings together those who have an issue with the Republic and those who are opposed to 1923 (bourgeois revolution in Turkey) and its leadership. This is not just our claim; they have never hidden it! Both the PKK and the People\u2019s Alliance (alliance led by AKP) could produce volumes of encyclopedias on this enmity. Certainly, other voices (whether sincere or not) have emerged, but one of the key factors shaping the current process is the alliance between Sheik Sait and \u0130skilipli At\u0131f Hoca, both of whom are figures with extreme religious views and who oppose the Republic.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><strong>Where do you get this from?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>It&#8217;s in \u00d6calan&#8217;s letter. It is safe to assume that \u00d6calan wrote that letter; it&#8217;s evident in its tone. But that letter was reviewed, monitored, and filtered by state officials, down to the last comma. In that letter, it states that the source of the Kurdish question lies in the Republic. There&#8217;s no room for debate on that. So, this is a point of agreement for both the sides. But not just this. In the same letter, the blame is also placed on socialism. \u00d6calan&#8217;s letter implies that they were influenced by reel socialism or that the USSR led them astray, essentially stating &#8220;we were socialist before, but it was wrong\u201d. Can they have a problem with the People\u2019s Alliance on this? Shortly afterward, Erdo\u011fan claimed that the PKK once aimed to create a Kurdish state based on Marxist-Leninist principles. However, Marxism-Leninism is not something that can be twisted in all directions. We&#8217;ve always maintained that PKK is not a Marxist-Leninist organization, but rather a nationalist one.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><strong>So, do you think this is an anti-republic anti-socialist process?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Certainly. No doubt.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><strong>Isn\u2019t it inevitable that this would cause a debate among the actors of the process?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>There is debate, there is tension. It\u2019s impossible for it to be otherwise. But the resistance against this anti-republic, anti-socialist coalition appears to arise not among the parties around the table but in the society. The leftist part of DEM Party had already given up on socialism. Especially in this critical juncture, and after years of advocating for the resolution of the Kurdish question and peace, they cannot oppose an Ottomanist peace now. In Turkey, there are those who cannot accept the blame placed on the Republic within the bureaucracy, yet they persist in refusing to understand the root cause of the issue. They fail to recognize that capitalism and the dominance of capital have long wanted to break free from the 1923 foundation. Eventually, the capitalist class has become convinced that the Republic project is flawed and needs to be replaced. They believe that secularism has caused issues and weakened the state. Now there\u2019s a shift toward an Ottomanist &#8220;national project.&#8221;<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><strong>Is it that easy?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Not of course. But I am highlighting a tendency. This is a sentiment that can easily affect everyone that ignores the class characteristics and functions of the &#8220;state&#8221;. But yes, this is not going to be easy. This process will result in intense tensions even within the elements of the system.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><strong>Will TKP interact with potential elements of resistance that might emerge in the political or social sphere during this process?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>TKP has a clear stance. Our party insists that the Republic of Turkey was established on a legitimate foundation. We won&#8217;t allow blemishing of this legitimate foundation. We stand against any attempts to alter the country\u2019s borders (whether expanding or contracting). We have always opposed federation and autonomy, and now \u00d6calan also says, &#8220;These are wrong.&#8221; We are not among those self-styled leftists that feel compelled to retract their previous statements based on shifts in \u00d6calan&#8217;s discourse. And there&#8217;s more. We oppose ideas like &#8220;democracy starts locally.&#8221; We are republicans, defending secularism in its true sense of the term. We will not compromise with rule of capital or the market economy. We will not be part of any policy or project that serves the interests of imperialist countries or Israel. We simply won&#8217;t embrace Ottomanism. We will not align with the &#8220;revolutionary&#8221; stance that romanticizes the armed struggle led by the PKK that views calls for disarmament as betrayal or surrender. Betrayal or surrender? These are not things that can be found among us! This is our position. Yes, a large segment of society will interact with our stance in Turkey. We are preparing likely platforms for such an interaction. Many who once said &#8220;TKP is all well and good but too rigid&#8221; began to realize that a principled stance does not mean rigidness and that survival in this chaotic world requires it, and now they started to take action with us.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><strong>But who is the winner in all this?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>It would be more accurate to formulate that question with &#8220;who are&#8221; and not &#8220;who is&#8221;. There are multiple parties. Also, the process is still ongoing, and there&#8217;s no telling where it will lead. Several parties may benefit. But if the process continues in the current direction, the first winner will be the capitalist class. Some might think &#8220;TKP sees capitalism as the root cause of every type of problem&#8221;. That&#8217;s completely fine. Ultimately, the source of all evil lies in the system of exploitation. Let me repeat: The winner in all this process is the capitalist class. Ratification of AKP&#8217;s Turkey by a &#8220;Turkish-Kurdish reconciliation&#8221; would benefit only them. Today&#8217;s Pax Ottomana would only mean Turkey&#8217;s increased economic influence in other countries where Kurds live. So that means new areas for exploitation and plundering. And, of course, Israel plays a role here, too.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><strong>But ruling AKP keeps claiming that they are disrupting Israel&#8217;s game.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Let&#8217;s remember what Israel&#8217;s goal is. It wants to eliminate factors threatening or limiting its so-called security, which you can read as its expansionist policies. The regime in Syria was overthrown, something both sides of the process had desired for years. They have now achieved it. Israel entered deep into Syria. There is a direct connection between the fall of Assad&#8217;s regime in Syria and the ongoing process here in Turkey. Additionally, the government&#8217;s increasingly aggressive stance towards Iran strengthened as soon as the process started. Most recently, Iran demanded an explanation of Hakan Fidan&#8217;s previous statement. Syria and Iran are two priorities of Israel. Could this be a coincidence? And there is more to it. Today, the actor Israel, the US, and Turkey seem to agree on most openly is Barzani. Barzani\u2019s clan is one of the most collaborative and cunning forces in the region. While PKK had competed with Barzani for years, now they agree. At the same time, Barzani\u2019s influence within Turkey is rapidly growing. In this sense, Barzani is also one of the winners of this process.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><strong>What about the US?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Which US? Right now, there is a very sharp struggle happening within the US. Since it is a struggle within the country at the top of the imperialist system, it impacts everyone. In this sense, it&#8217;s too early to make quick judgments about the US&#8217; involvement in the international stage. But if an answer is absolutely needed, yes, the US also won.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><strong>Regarding the Kurdish question, what happened, has it been resolved? Or will it be resolved?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>We have long stated that the Kurdish question cannot be defined separately and those with big mouths kept cursing us for saying so. It is a class issue, an aspect of labor-capital contradiction, an enlightenment issue, and an imperialism issue. Of course, there are specific demands for Kurdish rights and freedoms, but they cannot be considered independently of these fundamental issues. When you consider them separately, you would romanticize a regressive rebellion like the Sheikh Sait uprising. What happened now? They will most likely introduce constitutional changes. Some articles are already being discussed. They will, or at least try to, remove certain references from the constitution. Since they have agreed to hold the Republic responsible for the Kurdish issue, they will try to do this. However, for us, the Kurdish issue is about positioning both Kurdish and Turkish poor people\u2014along with all the poor in the country\u2014against conglomerates and also against cults and tribes. It is about rebuilding fraternity by reviving the idea of the Republic together, instead of trying to establish Turkish-Kurdish brotherhood through opposition to the Republic. We see that many Kurdish workers and laborers are disappointed with this process. They shouldn&#8217;t be. The process had already been devised to disappoint the workers. Now, it is time to put forward a socialist republic ideal against the Ottomanist one. The ideal of a just, industrialized, developed, sovereign, enlightened, and independent country. Isn\u2019t this much more realistic and progressive than trying to extract brotherhood from wars waged a thousand years ago?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><strong>Finally, we would like to ask about the personal role played by Devlet Bah\u00e7eli in this process. What is the meaning of his persona in this process?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Well, everyone voices different opinions on the matter. I would like to remind that the Party led by Devlet Bah\u00e7eli is one of the crucial centers in shaping the ideological formation of the system in Turkey and that a large segment of society heeds the references emerging from this center. MHP&#8217;s transition from Turkism to the Turkish-Islamic synthesis ideology in the past was significant. Turkish-Islamic synthesis ideology has been the main trajectory of the system and the state for a long time. It is again MHP that plays a crucial role in the attempt to shift towards Turkish-Islamic-Kurdish synthesis. I think we should look at it from this perspective. Nationalism and conservatism have shaped the rightwing policy for many years. However, the location that has nurtured Turkish conservatism and religious movements is predominantly Kurdish territory. A large portion of the religious sects also originated from there. As the idea of the Republic fades, the road for the Turkish-Islamic-Kurdish synthesis is being paved.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>***<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><strong>Entrevista con el Secretario General del TKP, Kemal Okuyan, sobre el Proceso de Paz<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><strong>De la s\u00edntesis turco-isl\u00e1mica a la s\u00edntesis turco-isl\u00e1mico-kurda\u2026 <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>El nombre de este proceso es Otomanismo. <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>En un ambiente en el que todo el mundo pregunta al otro: \u201c\u00bfApoyas el nuevo proceso de resoluci\u00f3n o est\u00e1s en contra?\u201d, empecemos con esta cuesti\u00f3n: \u00bfC\u00f3mo ve el TKP este proceso? <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/b><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Nuestros conciudadanos son constantemente atrapados en este tipo de preguntas que impiden ver la esencia de los acontecimientos. Lo dir\u00e9 sin rodeos: la pregunta en s\u00ed es err\u00f3nea. Plantear la cuesti\u00f3n en estos t\u00e9rminos significa caer en la falsa y complementaria dicotom\u00eda que quieren imponer tanto quienes dicen \u201cHab\u00e9is pactado con una organizaci\u00f3n terrorista\u201d como quienes dicen \u201c\u00bfAcaso est\u00e1s en contra de la hermandad de los turcos y kurdos?\u201d. <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>El TKP no forma parte de esta dicotom\u00eda. Pero, tampoco busca, en el sentido cl\u00e1sico de la palabra, una tercera v\u00eda. Cuando la cuesti\u00f3n central est\u00e1 en juego, el TKP toma partido abiertamente y sin titubeos.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Pero \u00bfno habr\u00eda que responder, en todo caso, la pregunta de s\u00ed apoy\u00e1is al proceso de paz?<\/b><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>No. <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Llevamos a\u00f1os diciendo que este sistema no puede resolver ning\u00fan problema importante. Y esto incluye la cuesti\u00f3n kurda. De hecho, diferimos de muchos sectores en cuanto a qu\u00e9 entendemos por cuesti\u00f3n kurda. Hoy, los actores que pueden considerarse sujetos de este proceso \u2014AKP, MHP, DEM, \u0130mral\u0131, Kandil, y quienesquiera que sean\u2014 no comparten nuestra visi\u00f3n de la cuesti\u00f3n kurda. Ayer tampoco la compart\u00edan. En este sentido, ni su diagn\u00f3stico ni su soluci\u00f3n nos resultan cercanos. <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Sin embargo, el tema tiene otra dimensi\u00f3n que se ha denominado de diversas maneras: \u201cconflicto\u201d, \u201cterrorismo\u201d, \u201cguerra\u201d. En este pa\u00eds, decenas de miles de personas han perdido la vida, se ha sembrado un sufrimiento que se puede convertir en enemistad en cada rinc\u00f3n del pa\u00eds, se han afianzado posiciones nacionalistas, la clase obrera se ha dividido y la pol\u00edtica ha quedado ensombrecida por esta realidad. \u00bfPuede haber algo m\u00e1s absurdo que oponerse a que esta situaci\u00f3n cambie? En este sentido, las negociaciones, acuerdos o pactos\u2014se llamen como se llamen\u2014no pueden ser rechazados. <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>\u00bfPero qu\u00e9 pasa si el acuerdo trae consecuencias negativas para nuestro pa\u00eds y nuestro pueblo? <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/b><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Entonces, que el debate se centre ah\u00ed. Que las objeciones se formulen sobre esa base y que quienes apoyan el proceso lo hagan en funci\u00f3n de los resultados que esperan. Pero oponerse al proceso para que \u00d6calan no sea liberado o para que no haya una amnist\u00eda general no tiene sentido. Del mismo modo, la cr\u00edtica a DEM por negociar con el AKP y el MHP es un tema superado. Hay cuestiones mucho m\u00e1s profundas que abordar.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Pero, al fin y al cabo, DEM es una formaci\u00f3n situada en la \u201cizquierda\u201d, o al menos con presencia de sectores de izquierda. \u00bfNo es extra\u00f1o que de repente establezcan amistad con el l\u00edder del Partido del Movimiento <\/b><b>Nacionalista<\/b><b>, Devlet Bah\u00e7eli? Para un revolucionario, esto no es f\u00e1cil de digerir. <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/b><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Lo digerir\u00e1n sin problema. Por lo menos, en gran medida. Porque el tema no es realmente darle la mano a Devlet Bah\u00e7eli. En un proceso de finalizaci\u00f3n de un conflicto, los acuerdos implican dar la mano, es algo inevitable. Obsesionarse con esto es completamente irrelevante. <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Lo que verdaderamente no deber\u00eda haberse digerido en nombre de la izquierda ya se digiri\u00f3 hace tiempo. La enemistad con la Rep\u00fablica, la reivindicaci\u00f3n del l\u00edder religioso reaccionario \u015eeyh Sait, la alianza con Estados Unidos\u2026 S\u00ed todo eso ya fue asimilado. \u00bfAhora Devlet Bah\u00e7eli va a ser el problema? Eso s\u00ed que resultar\u00eda extra\u00f1o.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Entonces, preguntemos: \u00bfcu\u00e1l es el problema del TKP? M\u00e1s precisamente, \u00bfpor qu\u00e9 el TKP no apoya este proceso? <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/b><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Es muy simple. El nombre lo dice todo: proceso. Se cambi\u00f3 el nombre de este proceso en comparaci\u00f3n con el proceso de paz anterior. Ahora no le han puesto un nombre en particular, pero todos est\u00e1n de acuerdo de que se trata de un \u201cproceso\u201d. Y todo proceso tiene una direcci\u00f3n. Nuestra objeci\u00f3n es a esa direcci\u00f3n. <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Pero si no se ha explicado nada, \u00bfc\u00f3mo pueden objetar la direcci\u00f3n? No hay a\u00fan un contenido definido.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/b><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>S\u00ed, en el proceso anterior tambi\u00e9n, la primera exigencia del TKP fue que las negociaciones se llevaran a cabo de manera abierta, y ahora tambi\u00e9n la es. La cuesti\u00f3n se ha vuelto a\u00fan m\u00e1s extra\u00f1a: ahora dicen que \u201cesta vez no hay conversaciones ni negociaciones.\u201d Aceptemos por un momento esta idea y supongamos que ni siquiera hay una mesa de di\u00e1logo en este proceso. En ese caso, la pregunta que debemos hacer es: \u00bfen qu\u00e9 punto coinciden los actores de este proceso? Pol\u00edtica e ideol\u00f3gicamente. Y ah\u00ed encontraremos m\u00e1s que suficientes razones para oponernos a este proceso. <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Perm\u00edtanme enumerarlas. Este proceso re\u00fane a quienes tienen un problema con la Rep\u00fablica, a quienes se oponen a 1923 y a su liderazgo. Eso no lo decimos nosotros. Es algo que nunca ocultaron. Se podr\u00edan escribir vol\u00famenes de enciclopedias con lo que tanto el PKK como la Alianza Popular han expresado en esta direcci\u00f3n. Por supuesto, ha habido otras voces (sinceras o no), pero en este momento, uno de los elementos que marca este proceso es precisamente ese. Lo llaman la alianza de \u015eeyh Sait e \u0130skilipli At\u0131f Hoca, y no es una exageraci\u00f3n. (Dos l\u00edderes hist\u00f3ricos del islamismo, \u015eeyh Sait es kurdo e \u0130skilipli At\u0131f Hoca turco.)<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>\u00bfEn qu\u00e9 basan esta afirmaci\u00f3n?<\/b><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>En la misma carta de \u00d6calan. Por el estilo que tiene al escribir, est\u00e1 claro que la carta fue redactada por \u00e9l, pero se ve que cada una de sus palabras ha sido revisada, supervisada y filtrada por funcionarios del Estado. En esa carta, se afirma que la ra\u00edz del problema kurdo es la Rep\u00fablica. No hay nada que discutir al respecto. Es decir, aqu\u00ed hay un punto en el que est\u00e1n de acuerdo.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Pero no es el \u00fanico. En la misma carta, tambi\u00e9n se responsabiliza al socialismo. Se insin\u00faa que fueron influenciados por el socialismo real o que la URSS los desvi\u00f3 del camino. En otras palabras, \u00d6calan, de alguna manera, est\u00e1 diciendo: \u201c\u00c9ramos socialistas antes, pero fue un error.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00bfPuede haber alg\u00fan problema con la Alianza Popular en este punto? Ninguno. De hecho, inmediatamente despu\u00e9s, \u00bfno fue Erdo\u011fan quien afirm\u00f3 que en el pasado el PKK quer\u00eda establecer un estado kurdo sobre bases marxistas-leninistas?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>El marxismo-leninismo no es algo que pueda ser manipulado y retorcido en cualquier direcci\u00f3n. No lo decimos ahora, lo hemos dicho siempre: el PKK nunca fue marxista-leninista, sino una organizaci\u00f3n nacionalista.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>\u00bfEntonces el proceso en cuesti\u00f3n va en contra de la rep\u00fablica y el socialismo?<\/b><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Sin ninguna duda.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>\u00bfEs posible que esto no genere discrepancias entre los actores del proceso? <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/b><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Hay discrepancias y tensiones. Lo contrario es imposible. Sin embargo, hoy se observa que la resistencia contra el consenso del que hablamos no se manifiesta en la mesa de negociaciones, sino en la sociedad. <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>El ala izquierda de DEM abandon\u00f3 el socialismo hace tiempo. En este momento cr\u00edtico, despu\u00e9s de a\u00f1os de decir \u201cSi se resuelve la cuesti\u00f3n kurda y llega la paz, se solucionar\u00e1 todo lo dem\u00e1s\u201d, no pueden oponerse a una paz de corte otomanista. <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Dentro de la burocracia de Turqu\u00eda, hay quienes no pueden aceptar\u2014o, mejor dicho, no pueden digerir\u2014que la Rep\u00fablica sea convertida en chivo expiatorio. Pero incluso ellos insisten en no ver el origen del problema. No entienden que el capitalismo, es decir, el dominio del capital, quiere deshacerse de la rep\u00fablica del 1923. Al final, han comenzado a convencerse de que el proyecto republicano ha fracasado y que se necesita algo diferente. Creen que el laicismo ha sido una anomal\u00eda en estas tierras y que ha debilitado al Estado. Se est\u00e1 produciendo una transici\u00f3n hacia un \u201cproyecto nacional\u201d de car\u00e1cter otomanista.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>\u00bfTan f\u00e1cil es? <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/b><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Por supuesto que no. Estoy hablando de una tendencia. Al final, esta es una percepci\u00f3n del Estado que ignora su car\u00e1cter de clase y su funci\u00f3n, una percepci\u00f3n capaz de incluir a cualquiera que se gu\u00ede por ella. <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Pero s\u00ed, no ser\u00e1 f\u00e1cil. Este proceso generar\u00e1 fuertes tensiones dentro del sistema en Turqu\u00eda.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>\u00bfEl TKP interactuar\u00e1 con los sectores de resistencia que puedan surgir en el \u00e1mbito pol\u00edtico o social durante este proceso? <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/b><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>La l\u00ednea del TKP es clara. Nuestro partido sostiene con firmeza que la Rep\u00fablica de Turqu\u00eda se fund\u00f3 sobre una base leg\u00edtima. No permitiremos que esto se ponga en duda. Nos oponemos a cualquier intento de difuminar las fronteras de este pa\u00eds, ya sea para expandirlas o reducirlas. Siempre hemos estado en contra de la federaci\u00f3n y la autonom\u00eda, y ahora tambi\u00e9n \u00d6calan dice que \u201cconsiderar la federaci\u00f3n y la autonom\u00eda fue un error\u201d. Pero no somos de esos supuestos izquierdistas que ahora tienen que tragarse lo que dijeron hasta ayer solo porque \u00d6calan lo ha declarado. <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Pero hay m\u00e1s. Tambi\u00e9n nos oponemos a esos razonamientos del tipo \u201cla democratizaci\u00f3n empieza desde lo local\u201d. Somos republicanos, defendemos el laicismo en su verdadero sentido. No pactamos con el dominio del capital ni con la econom\u00eda de mercado. No formamos parte de ninguna pol\u00edtica o proyecto que sirva a los intereses de los pa\u00edses imperialistas y de Israel. No digerimos el otomanismo. <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Tampoco compartimos, en ninguna forma, la postura \u201crevolucionaria\u201d que abordaba con romanticismo y fantas\u00edas la lucha armada llevada a cabo por el PKK, y ahora ve el llamado al abandono de las armas como traici\u00f3n o rendici\u00f3n. Si buscan traidores, b\u00fasquenlos en otra parte. <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Esa es nuestra posici\u00f3n. En Turqu\u00eda, hay un amplio sector con el que nuestra l\u00ednea puede interactuar. Y estamos preparando el terreno para ello. Muchos de los que dec\u00edan \u201cEl TKP es demasiado sectario\u201d han entendido en estas \u00faltimas semanas que la coherencia no es sectarismo y que, en este mundo ca\u00f3tico, mantenerse en pie depende de ello. Y por eso han comenzado a actuar junto a nosotros.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>\u00bfQui\u00e9n gana con este proceso? <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/b><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>En realidad, habr\u00eda que reformular la pregunta: \u00bfQui\u00e9nes podr\u00edan ser los posibles ganadores de este proceso? Porque, por un lado, el proceso a\u00fan est\u00e1 en marcha y nadie puede prever hacia d\u00f3nde evolucionar\u00e1. Por otro lado, parece que habr\u00e1 m\u00e1s de un beneficiado. <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Sin embargo, si este proceso avanza, el principal ganador ser\u00e1 la clase capitalista. Algunos dir\u00e1n: \u201cEl TKP siempre culpa de todo a la patronal\u201d. No hay problema con eso. En \u00faltima instancia, el origen de todos los males est\u00e1 en el sistema de explotaci\u00f3n. <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Lo repito: el principal ganador de este proceso ser\u00e1 la clase capitalista. Un \u201cconsenso turco-kurdo\u201d bajo el sello de la Turqu\u00eda del AKP es algo que les beneficia directamente. La paz otomana significar\u00e1 que Turqu\u00eda aumente su peso econ\u00f3mico en los pa\u00edses donde viven los kurdos. Y eso se traduce en nuevas oportunidades de saqueo y explotaci\u00f3n. <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Luego est\u00e1 Israel.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Pero el gobierno dice que est\u00e1 frustrando los planes de Israel. <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/b><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>\u00bfCu\u00e1l era el objetivo de Israel? Eliminar los factores que amenazaban o limitaban su supuesta \u201cseguridad\u201d, es decir, su pol\u00edtica expansionista. En Siria, el r\u00e9gimen ha sido derrocado. Durante a\u00f1os, ambas partes del proceso del que hablamos quer\u00edan un cambio de r\u00e9gimen en Siria. Lo lograron. Israel ha penetrado en Siria. <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Existe una conexi\u00f3n directa entre la ca\u00edda de Asad en Siria y el proceso que estamos viviendo en Turqu\u00eda. Adem\u00e1s, con la aparici\u00f3n de este proceso, la ret\u00f3rica agresiva del gobierno contra Ir\u00e1n se ha intensificado. Recientemente, tras las declaraciones de Fidan, Ir\u00e1n pidi\u00f3 explicaciones. Siria e Ir\u00e1n son las dos prioridades de Israel. \u00bfPuede ser una coincidencia? <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Pero no termina ah\u00ed. Hoy, en la regi\u00f3n, el actor en el que Israel, Estados Unidos y Turqu\u00eda coinciden m\u00e1s abiertamente, y tal vez con mayor fuerza, es Barzani. El clan Barzani es una de las fuerzas m\u00e1s colaboracionistas y oportunistas de la regi\u00f3n. Durante a\u00f1os, el PKK compiti\u00f3 con Barzani y ahora han llegado a un acuerdo. Al mismo tiempo, el peso de Barzani dentro de Turqu\u00eda est\u00e1 creciendo r\u00e1pidamente. <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>En este sentido, Barzani tambi\u00e9n est\u00e1 entre los ganadores de este proceso.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>\u00bfY Estados Unidos?<\/b><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>\u00bfCu\u00e1l Estados Unidos? En este momento, en Estados Unidos se est\u00e1 librando una lucha extremadamente intensa. Dado que esta disputa se desarrolla en el pa\u00eds que ocupa la c\u00faspide del sistema imperialista, su impacto se extiende a todas partes.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Por lo tanto, a\u00fan es demasiado pronto para hacer afirmaciones r\u00e1pidas sobre el papel de Estados Unidos en el escenario internacional.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Pero si hay que dar una respuesta si o si, dir\u00e9: s\u00ed, Estados Unidos tambi\u00e9n ha ganado.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>\u00bfY qu\u00e9 ha pasado con la cuesti\u00f3n kurda? \u00bfSe ha resuelto? \u00bfO se resolver\u00e1?<\/b><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Llevamos a\u00f1os diciendo que no se puede definir la cuesti\u00f3n kurda como una cuesti\u00f3n separada de todo, y algunos sabelotodos no han hecho m\u00e1s que insultarnos por ello. La cuesti\u00f3n kurda es una cuesti\u00f3n de clase, es la contradicci\u00f3n entre el trabajo y el capital. La cuesti\u00f3n kurda es una cuesti\u00f3n de ilustracionismo. La cuesti\u00f3n kurda es una cuesti\u00f3n que tiene que ver con el imperialismo. <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Por supuesto, existe una categor\u00eda espec\u00edfica de demandas de derechos y libertades por parte del pueblo kurdo, pero no pueden separarse de estos factores. Si se hace, se termina glorificando una revuelta reaccionaria como la de \u015eeyh Sait. <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>\u00bfY ahora qu\u00e9 ha pasado? Lo m\u00e1s probable es que realicen algunas modificaciones en la Constituci\u00f3n. Hay art\u00edculos que se est\u00e1n debatiendo, ciertas referencias que intentar\u00e1n eliminar o reformular. Como han llegado a un acuerdo en culpar a la Rep\u00fablica por la cuesti\u00f3n kurda, intentar\u00e1n hacerlo. <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Para nosotros, sin embargo, la cuesti\u00f3n kurda es, m\u00e1s que nunca, la cuesti\u00f3n de situar a los kurdos empobrecidos junto con los turcos empobrecidos \u2014junto con todos los empobrecidos de este pa\u00eds\u2014 frente a los monopolios, las \u00f3rdenes religiosas y los clanes terratenientes. <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Frente a quienes intentan construir la hermandad entre turcos y kurdos sobre la base de una postura contra la Rep\u00fablica, nosotros defendemos construir esa hermandad levantando juntos y de nuevo la idea de la rep\u00fablica. <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Vemos que muchos trabajadores y obreros kurdos est\u00e1n decepcionados. No hay raz\u00f3n para ello. Ese camino nunca fue un camino real. <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ahora es el momento de reemplazar un proyecto otomanista con el proyecto de una rep\u00fablica socialista. <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Una rep\u00fablica igualitaria, industrializada, desarrollada, soberana, ilustrada e independiente. <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>\u00bfNo es una propuesta mucho m\u00e1s realista y progresista que intentar construir hermandad a partir de guerras de hace mil a\u00f1os?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Por \u00faltimo, queremos preguntar sobre el papel personal de Devlet Bah\u00e7eli en este proceso. \u00bfQu\u00e9 significado tiene?<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/b><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Todo el mundo dice algo al respecto, pero yo quiero recordar que el Partido del Movimiento Nacionalista (MHP) liderado por Devlet Bah\u00e7eli es un foco importante en la configuraci\u00f3n ideol\u00f3gica del sistema en Turqu\u00eda. Un amplio sector de la sociedad toma como referencia las ideas que emanan de este centro. <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>El paso del MHP del turquismo a la s\u00edntesis turco-isl\u00e1mica en el pasado fue un cambio extremadamente importante. Durante mucho tiempo, la s\u00edntesis turco-isl\u00e1mica se convirti\u00f3 en la l\u00ednea del sistema y del propio Estado. <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ahora, en este intento de transici\u00f3n a una s\u00edntesis turco-isl\u00e1mico-kurda, el MHP vuelve a jugar un papel clave. Creo que es desde esta perspectiva que debemos analizar la cuesti\u00f3n. <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Durante a\u00f1os, el nacionalismo y el islamismo han sido los elementos que han dado forma a la derecha. Sin embargo, la geograf\u00eda que ha alimentado hist\u00f3ricamente tanto a la derecha turca como a las \u00f3rdenes religiosas es, de manera predominante, la regi\u00f3n kurda. <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>La gran mayor\u00eda de las \u00f3rdenes religiosas surgieron de all\u00ed. Cuanto m\u00e1s se aleja Turqu\u00eda de la idea de Rep\u00fablica, m\u00e1s se abre el camino hacia la s\u00edntesis turco-isl\u00e1mico-kurda.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>***<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u0418\u043d\u0442\u0435\u0440\u0432\u044c\u044e \u0441 \u0433\u0435\u043d\u0435\u0440\u0430\u043b\u044c\u043d\u044b\u043c \u0441\u0435\u043a\u0440\u0435\u0442\u0430\u0440\u0435\u043c \u041a\u041f\u0422 \u041a\u0435\u043c\u0430\u043b\u0435\u043c \u041e\u043a\u0443\u044f\u043d\u043e\u043c \u043e \u043f\u0440\u043e\u0446\u0435\u0441\u0441\u0435 \u0440\u0435\u0448\u0435\u043d\u0438\u044f \u043a\u043e\u043d\u0444\u043b\u0438\u043a\u0442\u0430:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>\u041e\u0442 \u0442\u0443\u0440\u0435\u0446\u043a\u043e-\u0438\u0441\u043b\u0430\u043c\u0441\u043a\u043e\u0433\u043e \u0441\u0438\u043d\u0442\u0435\u0437\u0430 \u043a \u0442\u0443\u0440\u0435\u0446\u043a\u043e-\u0438\u0441\u043b\u0430\u043c\u0441\u043a\u043e-\u043a\u0443\u0440\u0434\u0441\u043a\u043e\u043c\u0443 \u0441\u0438\u043d\u0442\u0435\u0437\u0443\u2026<\/b><b><\/b><\/p>\n<p><b>\u042d\u0442\u043e\u0442 \u043f\u0440\u043e\u0446\u0435\u0441\u0441 \u043d\u0430\u0437\u044b\u0432\u0430\u0435\u0442\u0441\u044f \u041e\u0421\u041c\u0410\u041d\u0418\u0417\u041c\u041e\u041c.<\/b><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>\u041a\u043e\u0433\u0434\u0430 \u0432\u0441\u0435 \u0432\u043e\u043a\u0440\u0443\u0433 \u0441\u043f\u0440\u0430\u0448\u0438\u0432\u0430\u044e\u0442 \u0434\u0440\u0443\u0433 \u0434\u0440\u0443\u0433\u0430: \u00ab\u041f\u043e\u0434\u0434\u0435\u0440\u0436\u0438\u0432\u0430\u0435\u0442\u0435 \u043b\u0438 \u0432\u044b \u043d\u043e\u0432\u044b\u0439 \u043f\u0440\u043e\u0446\u0435\u0441\u0441 \u0443\u0440\u0435\u0433\u0443\u043b\u0438\u0440\u043e\u0432\u0430\u043d\u0438\u044f \u0438\u043b\u0438 \u0432\u044b\u0441\u0442\u0443\u043f\u0430\u0435\u0442\u0435 \u043f\u0440\u043e\u0442\u0438\u0432 \u043d\u0435\u0433\u043e?\u00bb, \u043d\u0430\u0447\u043d\u0435\u043c \u0441 \u044d\u0442\u043e\u0433\u043e \u0432\u043e\u043f\u0440\u043e\u0441\u0430. \u041a\u0430\u043a \u041a\u043e\u043c\u043c\u0443\u043d\u0438\u0441\u0442\u0438\u0447\u0435\u0441\u043a\u0430\u044f \u043f\u0430\u0440\u0442\u0438\u044f \u0422\u0443\u0440\u0446\u0438\u0438 (\u041a\u041f\u0422) \u043e\u0442\u043d\u043e\u0441\u0438\u0442\u0441\u044f \u043a \u044d\u0442\u043e\u043c\u0443 \u043f\u0440\u043e\u0446\u0435\u0441\u0441\u0443?<\/b><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>\u041d\u0430\u0448\u0438 \u0433\u0440\u0430\u0436\u0434\u0430\u043d\u0435 \u043f\u043e\u0441\u0442\u043e\u044f\u043d\u043d\u043e \u0441\u0442\u0430\u043b\u043a\u0438\u0432\u0430\u044e\u0442\u0441\u044f \u0441 \u043f\u043e\u0434\u043e\u0431\u043d\u044b\u043c\u0438 \u0432\u043e\u043f\u0440\u043e\u0441\u0430\u043c\u0438, \u0438\u0437-\u0437\u0430 \u0447\u0435\u0433\u043e \u0442\u0435\u0440\u044f\u0435\u0442\u0441\u044f \u0441\u0443\u0442\u044c \u043f\u0440\u043e\u0438\u0441\u0445\u043e\u0434\u044f\u0449\u0435\u0433\u043e. \u0421\u043a\u0430\u0436\u0443 \u043f\u0440\u044f\u043c\u043e: \u0441\u0430\u043c \u0432\u043e\u043f\u0440\u043e\u0441 \u043f\u043e\u0441\u0442\u0430\u0432\u043b\u0435\u043d \u043d\u0435\u0432\u0435\u0440\u043d\u043e. \u042d\u0442\u043e\u0442 \u0432\u043e\u043f\u0440\u043e\u0441 \u044f\u0432\u043b\u044f\u0435\u0442\u0441\u044f \u043b\u043e\u0432\u0443\u0448\u043a\u043e\u0439, \u043d\u0430\u0432\u044f\u0437\u044b\u0432\u0430\u044e\u0449\u0435\u0439 \u043b\u043e\u0436\u043d\u043e\u0435 \u0438 \u0432\u0437\u0430\u0438\u043c\u043e\u0434\u043e\u043f\u043e\u043b\u043d\u044f\u044e\u0449\u0435\u0435 \u043f\u0440\u043e\u0442\u0438\u0432\u043e\u0441\u0442\u043e\u044f\u043d\u0438\u0435 \u043c\u0435\u0436\u0434\u0443 \u0442\u0435\u043c\u0438, \u043a\u0442\u043e \u0433\u043e\u0432\u043e\u0440\u0438\u0442: \u00ab\u0412\u044b \u0434\u043e\u0433\u043e\u0432\u043e\u0440\u0438\u043b\u0438\u0441\u044c \u0441 \u0442\u0435\u0440\u0440\u043e\u0440\u0438\u0441\u0442\u0438\u0447\u0435\u0441\u043a\u043e\u0439 \u043e\u0440\u0433\u0430\u043d\u0438\u0437\u0430\u0446\u0438\u0435\u0439\u00bb, \u0438 \u0442\u0435\u043c\u0438, \u043a\u0442\u043e \u0443\u0442\u0432\u0435\u0440\u0436\u0434\u0430\u0435\u0442: \u00ab\u0412\u044b \u043f\u0440\u043e\u0442\u0438\u0432 \u0431\u0440\u0430\u0442\u0441\u0442\u0432\u0430?\u00bb. \u041a\u041f\u0422 \u043d\u0435 \u044f\u0432\u043b\u044f\u0435\u0442\u0441\u044f \u0447\u0430\u0441\u0442\u044c\u044e \u044d\u0442\u043e\u0433\u043e \u043f\u0440\u043e\u0442\u0438\u0432\u043e\u0441\u0442\u043e\u044f\u043d\u0438\u044f. \u041e\u0434\u043d\u0430\u043a\u043e \u044d\u0442\u043e \u043d\u0435 \u043e\u0437\u043d\u0430\u0447\u0430\u0435\u0442, \u0447\u0442\u043e \u043c\u044b \u0437\u0430\u043d\u0438\u043c\u0430\u0435\u043c \u043d\u0435\u0439\u0442\u0440\u0430\u043b\u044c\u043d\u0443\u044e \u043f\u043e\u0437\u0438\u0446\u0438\u044e. \u041a\u043e\u0433\u0434\u0430 \u0440\u0435\u0447\u044c \u0438\u0434\u0435\u0442 \u043e \u0434\u0435\u0439\u0441\u0442\u0432\u0438\u0442\u0435\u043b\u044c\u043d\u043e \u0432\u0430\u0436\u043d\u043e\u043c \u0432\u043e\u043f\u0440\u043e\u0441\u0435, \u041a\u041f\u0422 \u0437\u0430\u043d\u0438\u043c\u0430\u0435\u0442 \u043e\u0442\u043a\u0440\u044b\u0442\u0443\u044e \u0438 \u0431\u0435\u0441\u043a\u043e\u043c\u043f\u0440\u043e\u043c\u0438\u0441\u0441\u043d\u0443\u044e \u043f\u043e\u0437\u0438\u0446\u0438\u044e.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>\u041d\u043e \u0440\u0430\u0437\u0432\u0435 \u0432\u043e\u043f\u0440\u043e\u0441 \u00ab\u041f\u043e\u0434\u0434\u0435\u0440\u0436\u0438\u0432\u0430\u0435\u0442\u0435 \u043b\u0438 \u0432\u044b \u043f\u0440\u043e\u0446\u0435\u0441\u0441 \u0443\u0440\u0435\u0433\u0443\u043b\u0438\u0440\u043e\u0432\u0430\u043d\u0438\u044f?\u00bb \u043d\u0435 \u0442\u0440\u0435\u0431\u0443\u0435\u0442 \u043e\u0442\u0432\u0435\u0442\u0430?<\/b><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>\u041d\u0435\u0442, \u043d\u0435 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\u043e\u043d\u0438 \u043d\u0438 \u043d\u0430\u0437\u044b\u0432\u0430\u043b\u0438\u0441\u044c. \u041f\u043e\u044d\u0442\u043e\u043c\u0443 \u0431\u0435\u0441\u0441\u043c\u044b\u0441\u043b\u0435\u043d\u043d\u043e \u0432\u044b\u0441\u0442\u0443\u043f\u0430\u0442\u044c \u043f\u0440\u043e\u0442\u0438\u0432 \u043f\u0435\u0440\u0435\u0433\u043e\u0432\u043e\u0440\u043e\u0432, \u0441\u043e\u0433\u043b\u0430\u0448\u0435\u043d\u0438\u0439 \u0438 \u043a\u043e\u043c\u043f\u0440\u043e\u043c\u0438\u0441\u0441\u043e\u0432, \u043a\u0430\u043a \u0431\u044b \u0438\u0445 \u043d\u0438 \u043d\u0430\u0437\u044b\u0432\u0430\u043b\u0438.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u041d\u043e \u0447\u0442\u043e, \u0435\u0441\u043b\u0438 \u0441\u043e\u0433\u043b\u0430\u0448\u0435\u043d\u0438\u0435 \u043f\u0440\u0438\u0432\u0435\u0434\u0435\u0442 \u043a \u043d\u0435\u0433\u0430\u0442\u0438\u0432\u043d\u044b\u043c \u043f\u043e\u0441\u043b\u0435\u0434\u0441\u0442\u0432\u0438\u044f\u043c \u0434\u043b\u044f \u043d\u0430\u0448\u0435\u0439 \u0441\u0442\u0440\u0430\u043d\u044b \u0438 \u043d\u0430\u0440\u043e\u0434\u0430?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>\u0412\u043e\u0442 \u043e\u0431 \u044d\u0442\u043e\u043c \u0438 \u0441\u043b\u0435\u0434\u0443\u0435\u0442 \u0433\u043e\u0432\u043e\u0440\u0438\u0442\u044c, \u0441 \u044d\u0442\u043e\u0439 \u043f\u043e\u0437\u0438\u0446\u0438\u0438 \u0441\u043b\u0435\u0434\u0443\u0435\u0442 \u043f\u043e\u0434\u0445\u043e\u0434\u0438\u0442\u044c \u043a \u0432\u043e\u043f\u0440\u043e\u0441\u0443. \u041f\u0443\u0441\u0442\u044c \u0432\u043e\u0437\u0440\u0430\u0436\u0435\u043d\u0438\u044f \u0441\u0442\u0440\u043e\u044f\u0442\u0441\u044f \u043d\u0430 \u044d\u0442\u043e\u0439 \u043e\u0441\u043d\u043e\u0432\u0435, \u0430 \u0441\u0442\u043e\u0440\u043e\u043d\u043d\u0438\u043a\u0438 \u043f\u0440\u043e\u0446\u0435\u0441\u0441\u0430 \u0437\u0430\u043d\u0438\u043c\u0430\u044e\u0442 \u043f\u043e\u0437\u0438\u0446\u0438\u044e \u0432 \u0437\u0430\u0432\u0438\u0441\u0438\u043c\u043e\u0441\u0442\u0438 \u043e\u0442 \u0442\u043e\u0433\u043e, \u043a \u043a\u0430\u043a\u043e\u043c\u0443 \u0440\u0435\u0437\u0443\u043b\u044c\u0442\u0430\u0442\u0443 \u043e\u043d\u0438 \u0441\u0442\u0440\u0435\u043c\u044f\u0442\u0441\u044f. \u0412 \u043e\u0441\u0442\u0430\u043b\u044c\u043d\u043e\u043c \u0430\u0440\u0433\u0443\u043c\u0435\u043d\u0442\u044b \u0432\u0440\u043e\u0434\u0435 \u00ab\u041e\u0441\u0432\u043e\u0431\u043e\u0434\u044f\u0442 \u041e\u0434\u0436\u0430\u043b\u0430\u043d\u0430\u00bb, \u00ab\u041e\u0431\u044a\u044f\u0432\u044f\u0442 \u0432\u0441\u0435\u043e\u0431\u0449\u0443\u044e \u0430\u043c\u043d\u0438\u0441\u0442\u0438\u044e\u00bb \u043d\u0435 \u0438\u043c\u0435\u044e\u0442 \u0441\u043c\u044b\u0441\u043b\u0430. \u0422\u0430\u043a \u0436\u0435, \u043a\u0430\u043a \u0438 \u043a\u0440\u0438\u0442\u0438\u043a\u0430 \u0414\u0415\u041c \u0437\u0430 \u043f\u0435\u0440\u0435\u0433\u043e\u0432\u043e\u0440\u044b \u0441 \u041f\u0421\u0420 \u0438 \u041f\u041d\u0414 \u2014 \u044d\u0442\u043e \u0443\u0436\u0435 \u043d\u0435 \u0430\u043a\u0442\u0443\u0430\u043b\u044c\u043d\u043e. \u0412\u043e\u043f\u0440\u043e\u0441\u044b \u0433\u043e\u0440\u0430\u0437\u0434\u043e \u0433\u043b\u0443\u0431\u0436\u0435.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u041d\u043e \u0432\u0435\u0434\u044c \u0414\u0415\u041c \u2014 \u044d\u0442\u043e \u043e\u0440\u0433\u0430\u043d\u0438\u0437\u0430\u0446\u0438\u044f, \u043a\u043e\u0442\u043e\u0440\u0430\u044f \u0441\u0442\u043e\u0438\u0442 \u00ab\u0441\u043b\u0435\u0432\u0430\u00bb, \u0438\u043b\u0438, \u043f\u043e \u043a\u0440\u0430\u0439\u043d\u0435\u0439 \u043c\u0435\u0440\u0435, \u0432\u043a\u043b\u044e\u0447\u0430\u0435\u0442 \u0432 \u0441\u0435\u0431\u044f \u043b\u0435\u0432\u044b\u0445. \u0420\u0430\u0437\u0432\u0435 \u0434\u0440\u0443\u0436\u0431\u0430 \u0441 \u0414\u0435\u0432\u043b\u0435\u0442\u043e\u043c \u0411\u0430\u0445\u0447\u0435\u043b\u0438 \u043d\u0435 \u043a\u0430\u0436\u0435\u0442\u0441\u044f \u0441\u0442\u0440\u0430\u043d\u043d\u043e\u0439? \u0420\u0430\u0437\u0432\u0435 \u0440\u0435\u0432\u043e\u043b\u044e\u0446\u0438\u043e\u043d\u0435\u0440\u044b \u043c\u043e\u0433\u0443\u0442 \u044d\u0442\u043e \u043f\u0440\u0438\u043d\u044f\u0442\u044c?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>\u041f\u0440\u0438\u043c\u0443\u0442. \u041f\u043e \u0431\u043e\u043b\u044c\u0448\u0435\u0439 \u0447\u0430\u0441\u0442\u0438. \u041f\u043e\u0442\u043e\u043c\u0443 \u0447\u0442\u043e \u0434\u0435\u043b\u043e \u043d\u0435 \u0432 \u0442\u043e\u043c, \u0447\u0442\u043e\u0431\u044b \u043f\u043e\u0436\u0430\u0442\u044c \u0440\u0443\u043a\u0443 \u0414\u0435\u0432\u043b\u0435\u0442\u0443 \u0411\u0430\u0445\u0447\u0435\u043b\u0438. \u041f\u0440\u0438 \u0437\u0430\u0432\u0435\u0440\u0448\u0435\u043d\u0438\u0438 \u043a\u043e\u043d\u0444\u043b\u0438\u043a\u0442\u0430 \u0440\u0443\u043a\u043e\u043f\u043e\u0436\u0430\u0442\u0438\u0435 \u2014 \u0435\u0441\u0442\u0435\u0441\u0442\u0432\u0435\u043d\u043d\u0430\u044f \u0432\u0435\u0449\u044c. \u0424\u043e\u043a\u0443\u0441\u0438\u0440\u043e\u0432\u0430\u0442\u044c\u0441\u044f \u043d\u0430 \u044d\u0442\u043e\u043c \u043d\u0435 \u0438\u043c\u0435\u0435\u0442 \u0441\u043c\u044b\u0441\u043b\u0430. \u041d\u0430\u0441\u0442\u043e\u044f\u0449\u0438\u0435 \u043a\u043e\u043c\u043f\u0440\u043e\u043c\u0438\u0441\u0441\u044b \u043e\u0442 \u0438\u043c\u0435\u043d\u0438 \u043b\u0435\u0432\u044b\u0445 \u0431\u044b\u043b\u0438 \u0441\u0434\u0435\u043b\u0430\u043d\u044b \u0437\u0430\u0434\u043e\u043b\u0433\u043e \u0434\u043e \u044d\u0442\u043e\u0433\u043e. \u0410\u043d\u0442\u0438-\u0440\u0435\u0441\u043f\u0443\u0431\u043b\u0438\u043a\u0430\u043d\u0441\u043a\u0430\u044f \u043f\u043e\u0437\u0438\u0446\u0438\u044f, \u043e\u043f\u0440\u0430\u0432\u0434\u0430\u043d\u0438\u0435 \u0432\u043e\u0441\u0441\u0442\u0430\u043d\u0438\u044f \u0448\u0435\u0439\u0445\u0430 \u0421\u0430\u0438\u0442\u0430, \u043a\u043e\u043b\u043b\u043e\u0431\u0430\u0440\u0430\u0446\u0438\u044f \u0441 \u0421\u0428\u0410 \u2014 \u0432\u0441\u0435 \u044d\u0442\u043e \u0443\u0436\u0435 \u0431\u044b\u043b\u043e \u043f\u0440\u0438\u043d\u044f\u0442\u043e. \u0422\u0435\u043f\u0435\u0440\u044c \u043b\u0438 \u0411\u0430\u0445\u0447\u0435\u043b\u0438 \u0441\u0442\u0430\u043b \u043f\u0440\u043e\u0431\u043b\u0435\u043c\u043e\u0439? \u042d\u0442\u043e \u0431\u044b\u043b\u043e \u0431\u044b \u0434\u0435\u0439\u0441\u0442\u0432\u0438\u0442\u0435\u043b\u044c\u043d\u043e \u0441\u0442\u0440\u0430\u043d\u043d\u043e.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>\u0422\u043e\u0433\u0434\u0430 \u0432 \u0447\u0435\u043c \u0437\u0430\u043a\u043b\u044e\u0447\u0430\u0435\u0442\u0441\u044f \u043f\u0440\u043e\u0431\u043b\u0435\u043c\u0430 \u041a\u041f\u0422? \u041f\u043e\u0447\u0435\u043c\u0443 \u041a\u041f\u0422 \u043d\u0435 \u043f\u043e\u0434\u0434\u0435\u0440\u0436\u0438\u0432\u0430\u0435\u0442 \u044d\u0442\u043e\u0442 \u043f\u0440\u043e\u0446\u0435\u0441\u0441?<\/b><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>\u0412\u0441\u0435 \u043f\u0440\u043e\u0441\u0442\u043e. \u042d\u0442\u043e \u0438\u043c\u0435\u043d\u043d\u043e \u043f\u0440\u043e\u0446\u0435\u0441\u0441. \u0410 \u0443 \u043b\u044e\u0431\u043e\u0433\u043e \u043f\u0440\u043e\u0446\u0435\u0441\u0441\u0430 \u0435\u0441\u0442\u044c \u043d\u0430\u043f\u0440\u0430\u0432\u043b\u0435\u043d\u0438\u0435. \u041c\u044b \u0432\u043e\u0437\u0440\u0430\u0436\u0430\u0435\u043c \u0438\u043c\u0435\u043d\u043d\u043e \u043f\u0440\u043e\u0442\u0438\u0432 \u044d\u0442\u043e\u0433\u043e \u043d\u0430\u043f\u0440\u0430\u0432\u043b\u0435\u043d\u0438\u044f.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>\u041d\u043e \u043d\u0430\u043f\u0440\u0430\u0432\u043b\u0435\u043d\u0438\u0435 \u043f\u0440\u043e\u0446\u0435\u0441\u0441\u0430 \u0435\u0449\u0435 \u043d\u0435 \u043e\u0431\u044a\u044f\u0432\u043b\u0435\u043d\u043e, \u0442\u0430\u043a \u0447\u0442\u043e \u0436\u0435 \u0432\u0430\u043c \u043d\u0435 \u043d\u0440\u0430\u0432\u0438\u0442\u0441\u044f? \u041d\u0430 \u0434\u0430\u043d\u043d\u044b\u0439 \u043c\u043e\u043c\u0435\u043d\u0442 \u043d\u0435\u0442 \u0447\u0435\u0442\u043a\u043e\u0433\u043e \u0441\u043e\u0434\u0435\u0440\u0436\u0430\u043d\u0438\u044f.<\/b><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>\u0414\u0430, \u0438 \u0432 \u043f\u0440\u043e\u0448\u043b\u043e\u043c \u041a\u041f\u0422 \u0442\u0440\u0435\u0431\u043e\u0432\u0430\u043b\u0430, \u0447\u0442\u043e\u0431\u044b \u043f\u0435\u0440\u0435\u0433\u043e\u0432\u043e\u0440\u044b \u0432\u0435\u043b\u0438\u0441\u044c \u043e\u0442\u043a\u0440\u044b\u0442\u043e, \u0438 \u0441\u0435\u0439\u0447\u0430\u0441 \u0442\u043e\u0436\u0435. \u041d\u043e \u0441\u0438\u0442\u0443\u0430\u0446\u0438\u044f \u0441\u0442\u0430\u043b\u0430 \u0435\u0449\u0435 \u0431\u043e\u043b\u0435\u0435 \u0441\u0442\u0440\u0430\u043d\u043d\u043e\u0439: \u0442\u0435\u043f\u0435\u0440\u044c \u0433\u043e\u0432\u043e\u0440\u044f\u0442, \u0447\u0442\u043e \u00ab\u043d\u0430 \u044d\u0442\u043e\u0442 \u0440\u0430\u0437 \u043f\u0435\u0440\u0435\u0433\u043e\u0432\u043e\u0440\u043e\u0432 \u0438 \u0441\u0434\u0435\u043b\u043e\u043a \u043d\u0435\u0442\u00bb. \u041f\u0440\u0435\u0434\u043f\u043e\u043b\u043e\u0436\u0438\u043c, \u043c\u044b \u043f\u043e\u0432\u0435\u0440\u0438\u043b\u0438 \u0432 \u044d\u0442\u043e \u0438 \u0434\u043e\u043f\u0443\u0441\u0442\u0438\u043b\u0438, \u0447\u0442\u043e \u0432 \u0440\u0430\u043c\u043a\u0430\u0445 \u043f\u0440\u043e\u0446\u0435\u0441\u0441\u0430 \u0434\u0430\u0436\u0435 \u043d\u0435 \u0432\u0435\u0434\u0435\u0442\u0441\u044f \u043d\u0438\u043a\u0430\u043a\u0438\u0445 \u043f\u0435\u0440\u0435\u0433\u043e\u0432\u043e\u0440\u043e\u0432. \u0422\u043e\u0433\u0434\u0430 \u043d\u0430\u0448 \u0432\u043e\u043f\u0440\u043e\u0441 \u0442\u0430\u043a\u043e\u0432: \u0432 \u0447\u0435\u043c \u043d\u0430\u0445\u043e\u0434\u044f\u0442 \u043e\u0431\u0449\u0438\u0439 \u044f\u0437\u044b\u043a \u0443\u0447\u0430\u0441\u0442\u043d\u0438\u043a\u0438 \u044d\u0442\u043e\u0433\u043e \u043f\u0440\u043e\u0446\u0435\u0441\u0441\u0430? \u0412 \u043f\u043e\u043b\u0438\u0442\u0438\u0447\u0435\u0441\u043a\u043e\u043c \u0438 \u0438\u0434\u0435\u043e\u043b\u043e\u0433\u0438\u0447\u0435\u0441\u043a\u043e\u043c \u043f\u043b\u0430\u043d\u0435. \u0412\u043e\u0442 \u0442\u043e\u0433\u0434\u0430 \u0443 \u043d\u0430\u0441 \u043f\u043e\u044f\u0432\u043b\u044f\u0435\u0442\u0441\u044f \u043c\u043d\u043e\u0436\u0435\u0441\u0442\u0432\u043e \u043f\u0440\u0438\u0447\u0438\u043d \u0432\u044b\u0441\u0442\u0443\u043f\u0430\u0442\u044c \u043f\u0440\u043e\u0442\u0438\u0432. \u041f\u043e\u0437\u0432\u043e\u043b\u044c\u0442\u0435 \u0438\u0445 \u043f\u0435\u0440\u0435\u0447\u0438\u0441\u043b\u0438\u0442\u044c.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>\u042d\u0442\u043e\u0442 \u043f\u0440\u043e\u0446\u0435\u0441\u0441 \u043e\u0431\u044a\u0435\u0434\u0438\u043d\u044f\u0435\u0442 \u0442\u0435\u0445, \u043a\u0442\u043e \u0432\u044b\u0441\u0442\u0443\u043f\u0430\u0435\u0442 \u043f\u0440\u043e\u0442\u0438\u0432 \u0420\u0435\u0441\u043f\u0443\u0431\u043b\u0438\u043a\u0438, \u043f\u0440\u043e\u0442\u0438\u0432 1923 \u0433\u043e\u0434\u0430 \u0438 \u0435\u0433\u043e \u043b\u0438\u0434\u0435\u0440\u043e\u0432. \u042d\u0442\u043e \u043d\u0435 \u043d\u0430\u0448\u0430 \u0434\u043e\u0433\u0430\u0434\u043a\u0430, \u044d\u0442\u043e \u0434\u0430\u0436\u0435 \u043d\u0435 \u0441\u043a\u0440\u044b\u0432\u0430\u044e\u0442! \u041f\u043e \u043e\u0431\u0435 \u0441\u0442\u043e\u0440\u043e\u043d\u044b \u2014 \u0438 \u0441\u043e \u0441\u0442\u043e\u0440\u043e\u043d\u044b \u0420\u0430\u0431\u043e\u0447\u0435\u0439 \u041f\u0430\u0440\u0442\u0438\u0438 \u041a\u0443\u0440\u0434\u0438\u0441\u0442\u0430\u043d\u0430 (\u0420\u041f\u041a) , \u0438 \u0441\u043e \u0441\u0442\u043e\u0440\u043e\u043d\u044b \u043f\u0440\u0430\u0432\u0438\u0442\u0435\u043b\u044c\u0441\u0442\u0432\u0430\u2014 \u043c\u043d\u043e\u0433\u043e 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\u0442\u0430\u043a\u043e\u0432\u044b\u043c \u0438 \u044f\u0432\u043b\u044f\u0435\u0442\u0441\u044f.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>\u041e\u0442\u043a\u0443\u0434\u0430 \u0443 \u0432\u0430\u0441 \u0442\u0430\u043a\u0438\u0435 \u0432\u044b\u0432\u043e\u0434\u044b?<\/b><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>\u042d\u0442\u043e \u0435\u0441\u0442\u044c \u0432 \u043f\u0438\u0441\u044c\u043c\u0435 \u041e\u0434\u0436\u0430\u043b\u0430\u043d\u0430. \u041f\u043e\u0441\u043b\u0443\u0448\u0430\u0439\u0442\u0435, \u0438\u0437 \u0441\u0442\u0438\u043b\u044f \u044f\u0441\u043d\u043e, \u0447\u0442\u043e \u043f\u0438\u0441\u044c\u043c\u043e \u043d\u0430\u043f\u0438\u0441\u0430\u043b \u041e\u0434\u0436\u0430\u043b\u0430\u043d, \u043d\u043e \u044d\u0442\u043e \u043f\u0438\u0441\u044c\u043c\u043e \u0431\u044b\u043b\u043e \u043f\u0440\u043e\u0430\u043d\u0430\u043b\u0438\u0437\u0438\u0440\u043e\u0432\u0430\u043d\u043e, \u043f\u0440\u043e\u0432\u0435\u0440\u0435\u043d\u043e \u0438 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\u043e\u0431\u044a\u044f\u0441\u043d\u0435\u043d\u0438\u0439. \u0421\u0438\u0440\u0438\u044f \u0438 \u0418\u0440\u0430\u043d &#8211; \u0434\u0432\u0430 \u043f\u0440\u0438\u043e\u0440\u0438\u0442\u0435\u0442\u0430 \u0418\u0437\u0440\u0430\u0438\u043b\u044f. \u041c\u043e\u0436\u0435\u0442 \u043b\u0438 \u044d\u0442\u043e \u0431\u044b\u0442\u044c \u0441\u043e\u0432\u043f\u0430\u0434\u0435\u043d\u0438\u0435\u043c? \u0422\u0430\u043a\u0436\u0435 \u0445\u043e\u0447\u0443 \u043e\u0442\u043c\u0435\u0442\u0438\u0442\u044c, \u0447\u0442\u043e \u0441\u0435\u0433\u043e\u0434\u043d\u044f \u0411\u0430\u0440\u0437\u0430\u043d\u0438 &#8211; \u044d\u0442\u043e \u0442\u043e\u0442 \u0438\u0433\u0440\u043e\u043a \u0432 \u0440\u0435\u0433\u0438\u043e\u043d\u0435, \u043d\u0430 \u043a\u043e\u0442\u043e\u0440\u043e\u0433\u043e \u0418\u0437\u0440\u0430\u0438\u043b\u044c, \u0421\u0428\u0410 \u0438 \u0422\u0443\u0440\u0446\u0438\u044f \u0432\u043c\u0435\u0441\u0442\u0435 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\u0441\u0442\u0440\u0435\u043c\u0438\u0442\u0435\u043b\u044c\u043d\u043e \u0440\u0430\u0441\u0442\u0435\u0442. \u0412 \u044d\u0442\u043e\u043c \u0441\u043c\u044b\u0441\u043b\u0435 \u0411\u0430\u0440\u0437\u0430\u043d\u0438 \u0442\u0430\u043a\u0436\u0435 \u0432\u0445\u043e\u0434\u0438\u0442 \u0432 \u0447\u0438\u0441\u043b\u043e \u043f\u043e\u0431\u0435\u0434\u0438\u0442\u0435\u043b\u0435\u0439 \u044d\u0442\u043e\u0433\u043e \u043f\u0440\u043e\u0446\u0435\u0441\u0441\u0430.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>\u0410 \u0421\u0428\u0410?<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/b><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>\u041a\u0430\u043a\u0438\u0435 \u0421\u0428\u0410? \u0412 \u043d\u0430\u0441\u0442\u043e\u044f\u0449\u0435\u0435 \u0432\u0440\u0435\u043c\u044f \u0432 \u0421\u0428\u0410 \u0438\u0434\u0435\u0442 \u043e\u0447\u0435\u043d\u044c, \u043e\u0447\u0435\u043d\u044c \u043e\u0441\u0442\u0440\u0430\u044f \u0431\u043e\u0440\u044c\u0431\u0430. \u041f\u043e\u0441\u043a\u043e\u043b\u044c\u043a\u0443 \u044d\u0442\u0430 \u0431\u043e\u0440\u044c\u0431\u0430 \u043f\u0440\u043e\u0438\u0441\u0445\u043e\u0434\u0438\u0442 \u0432 \u0441\u0442\u0440\u0430\u043d\u0435, \u0441\u0442\u043e\u044f\u0449\u0435\u0439 \u043d\u0430 \u0432\u0435\u0440\u0448\u0438\u043d\u0435 \u0438\u043c\u043f\u0435\u0440\u0438\u0430\u043b\u0438\u0441\u0442\u0438\u0447\u0435\u0441\u043a\u043e\u0439 \u0441\u0438\u0441\u0442\u0435\u043c\u044b, \u043e\u043d\u0430 \u0437\u0430\u0442\u0440\u0430\u0433\u0438\u0432\u0430\u0435\u0442 \u0432\u0441\u0435 \u0441\u0442\u043e\u0440\u043e\u043d\u044b. \u0412 \u044d\u0442\u043e\u043c \u0441\u043c\u044b\u0441\u043b\u0435 \u043f\u043e\u043a\u0430 \u0440\u0430\u043d\u043e \u0434\u0435\u043b\u0430\u0442\u044c \u0431\u044b\u0441\u0442\u0440\u044b\u0435 \u043c\u0435\u0436\u0434\u0443\u043d\u0430\u0440\u043e\u0434\u043d\u044b\u0435 \u0432\u044b\u0432\u043e\u0434\u044b \u043e \u0421\u0428\u0410. \u041d\u043e \u0435\u0441\u043b\u0438 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\u043a\u0443\u0440\u0434\u0441\u043a\u0430\u044f \u043f\u0440\u043e\u0431\u043b\u0435\u043c\u0430 \u2014 \u044d\u0442\u043e \u043f\u0440\u043e\u0431\u043b\u0435\u043c\u0430 \u043f\u0440\u043e\u0441\u0432\u0435\u0449\u0435\u043d\u0438\u044f, \u043a\u0443\u0440\u0434\u0441\u043a\u0430\u044f<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>\u043f\u0440\u043e\u0431\u043b\u0435\u043c\u0430 \u2014 \u044d\u0442\u043e \u043f\u0440\u043e\u0431\u043b\u0435\u043c\u0430 \u0438\u043c\u043f\u0435\u0440\u0438\u0430\u043b\u0438\u0437\u043c\u0430. \u041a\u043e\u043d\u0435\u0447\u043d\u043e, \u0441\u0443\u0449\u0435\u0441\u0442\u0432\u0443\u0435\u0442 \u043e\u0442\u0434\u0435\u043b\u044c\u043d\u0430\u044f \u043a\u0430\u0442\u0435\u0433\u043e\u0440\u0438\u044f \u043a\u0443\u0440\u0434\u0441\u043a\u0438\u0445 \u0442\u0440\u0435\u0431\u043e\u0432\u0430\u043d\u0438\u0439 \u043f\u0440\u0430\u0432 \u0438 \u0441\u0432\u043e\u0431\u043e\u0434, \u043d\u043e \u043e\u043d\u0430 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\u0411\u043e\u043b\u044c\u0448\u0430\u044f \u0447\u0430\u0441\u0442\u044c \u0441\u0435\u043a\u0442 \u0432\u043e\u0437\u043d\u0438\u043a\u043b\u0430 \u0438\u043c\u0435\u043d\u043d\u043e \u0442\u0430\u043c. \u0427\u0435\u043c \u0434\u0430\u043b\u044c\u0448\u0435 \u043e\u0442\u0445\u043e\u0434\u044f\u0442 \u043e\u0442 \u0438\u0434\u0435\u0438 \u0440\u0435\u0441\u043f\u0443\u0431\u043b\u0438\u043a\u0438, \u0442\u0435\u043c \u0431\u043e\u043b\u044c\u0448\u0435 \u043e\u0442\u043a\u0440\u044b\u0432\u0430\u0435\u0442\u0441\u044f \u043f\u0443\u0442\u044c \u0434\u043b\u044f \u0442\u0443\u0440\u0435\u0446\u043a\u043e-\u0438\u0441\u043b\u0430\u043c\u0441\u043a\u043e-\u043a\u0443\u0440\u0434\u0441\u043a\u043e\u0433\u043e \u0441\u0438\u043d\u0442\u0435\u0437\u0430.<\/p>\n<p>***<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><strong>Interview mit TKP-Generalsekret\u00e4r Kemal Okuyan zum L\u00f6sungsprozess<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Von der t\u00fcrkisch-islamischen Synthese zur t\u00fcrkisch-islamisch-kurdischen Synthese&#8230;<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/b><\/p>\n<p><b>Der Name dieses Prozesses ist OSMANISMUS<\/b><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>In einer Atmosph\u00e4re, in der sich alle gegenseitig fragen, ob sie den neuen L\u00f6sungsprozess unterst\u00fctzen oder dagegen sind, wollen wir mit dieser Frage beginnen. Wie sieht die TKP diesen Prozess?<\/b><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jedes Mal werden unsere B\u00fcrger:innen mit solchen Fragen \u00fcberh\u00e4uft und<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>der Kern des Geschehens geht verloren. Ich m\u00f6chte vorausschicken, dass die Frage an sich schon falsch ist. Diese Frage ist eine Kapitulation vor dem falschen und komplement\u00e4ren Gegensatz, den diejenigen, die sagen: \u201eDu hast mit der Terrororganisation paktiert\u201c, und diejenigen, die sagen: \u201eDu bist gegen die Br\u00fcderlichkeit\u201c, konstruieren wollen. Die TKP ist nicht Teil dieses Gegensatzes. Sie ist aber auch kein Vertreter eines Mittelweges im klassischen Sinne. In der wesentlichen Sache steht die TKP klar und eindeutig auf einer Seite.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Aber ist die Frage, ob man den L\u00f6sungsprozess unterst\u00fctzt, nicht trotzdem eine, die beantwortet werden muss?<\/b><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Nein, das ist sie nicht. Seit Jahren sagen wir: \u201eDieses System kann keines der ernsten und wichtigen Probleme l\u00f6sen\u201c, auch nicht die Kurdenfrage. Schon in dem, was wir unter der Kurdenfrage verstehen, unterscheiden wir uns von vielen anderen. Wir haben heute nichts gemeinsam mit der Beschreibung der Kurdenfrage durch die Akteure, die als Subjekte des L\u00f6sungsprozesses bezeichnet werden k\u00f6nnen &#8211; sei es die AKP, die MHP, die DEM, \u0130mral\u0131, Qandil oder wer auch immer. Das war auch in der Vergangenheit nicht der Fall. Insofern sind die Diagnosen und L\u00f6sungsans\u00e4tze dieser Akteure weit von uns entfernt.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Es gibt aber auch bei diesem Thema die Dimensionen \u201eKonflikt\u201c, \u201eTerror\u201c und \u201eKrieg\u201c, die unterschiedlich benannt werden. Zehntausende Menschen haben in diesem Land ihr Leben verloren, der Schmerz, der sich in Feindseligkeit verwandelt hat, ist in alle Winkel des Landes vorgedrungen, nationalistische Positionen haben sich verfestigt, die Arbeiterklasse ist gespalten, und die Schatten dieses Bildes haben sich \u00fcber die politische Arena gelegt. Kann es etwas Absurderes geben, als sich gegen eine Ver\u00e4nderung dieses Bildes zu wehren? Insofern ist es sinnlos, sich gegen Verhandlungen, Abkommen oder Kompromisse, wie immer sie genannt werden, zu wehren und dagegen Stellung zu beziehen.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Was aber, wenn das Abkommen negative Entwicklungen f\u00fcr unser Land und unser Volk mit sich bringt?<\/b><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Genau das sollte diskutiert und das Thema unter diesem Gesichtspunkt betrachtet werden. Die Einw\u00e4nde sollten auf dieser Grundlage formuliert werden, und die Bef\u00fcrworter des Prozesses sollten sich entsprechend dem angestrebten Ergebnis positionieren. Au\u00dferdem ist es absurd, sich mit Argumenten wie \u201e\u00d6calan wird freigelassen\u201c oder \u201ees wird eine Generalamnestie geben\u201c gegen diesen Prozess zu stellen. Wir sind auch \u00fcber den Punkt hinaus, die DEM zu kritisieren, weil sie mit der AKP und der MHP \u00fcbereinstimmt. Wir haben gr\u00f6\u00dfere Probleme.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Aber die DEM ist doch eine Organisation, die sich als \u201elinks\u201c versteht, zumindest geh\u00f6ren ihr Linke an. Ist es nicht seltsam, dass sie pl\u00f6tzlich mit Devlet Bah\u00e7eli befreundet sind? Das ist nicht leicht zu verdauen f\u00fcr einen Revolution\u00e4r.<\/b><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Sie verdauen es. Zumindest gr\u00f6\u00dftenteils. Denn es geht nicht darum, Devlet Bah\u00e7eli die Hand zu geben. Nat\u00fcrlich gibt man sich die Hand, wenn man einen Konflikt beendet. Es ist wirklich sinnlos, an diesen Dingen festzuhalten. Es gab Themen, die man im Namen der Linken nicht verdauen sollte, die sie aber l\u00e4ngst hinter sich gelassen haben. Republikfeindlichkeit, Scheich Said, die Allianz mit den USA &#8211; all das ist verdaut. Es w\u00e4re seltsam, wenn Devlet Bah\u00e7eli jetzt ein Problem w\u00e4re.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Dann stellt sich die Frage: Was ist das Problem der TKP? Genauer gesagt, warum unterst\u00fctzt die TKP diesen Prozess nicht?<\/b><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Das ist ganz einfach. Man nennt es einen Prozess. Das Wort \u201eL\u00f6sung\u201c ist weggefallen, es hei\u00dft auch nicht mehr \u201eInitiative\u201c, aber alle sind sich einig, dass es ein Prozess ist. Und jeder Prozess hat eine Leitlinie. Unser Einwand richtet sich gegen diese Leitlinie.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Es wurde noch nichts angek\u00fcndigt, und Sie haben also Einw\u00e4nde gegen die Leitlinie? Es gibt noch keinen solchen Inhalt.<\/b><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ja, die erste Forderung der TKP im letzten Prozess war: \u201eDie Gespr\u00e4che sollen offen gef\u00fchrt werden\u201c, und das gilt auch heute noch. Das Thema ist sogar noch bizarrer geworden, denn es hei\u00dft: \u201eDiesmal wird nicht verhandelt, diesmal wird nicht gefeilscht\u201c. Nehmen wir f\u00fcr einen Moment an, es g\u00e4be keinen runden Tisch. Die Frage, die wir uns dann stellen m\u00fcssen, lautet: Wo treffen sich die Akteure dieses Prozesses politisch und ideologisch? Denn dann h\u00e4tten wir viele Gr\u00fcnde, uns diesem Prozess zu widersetzen. Ich will sie aufz\u00e4hlen: Dieser Prozess bringt diejenigen zusammen, die ein Problem mit der Republik haben, und er bringt diejenigen zusammen, die gegen 1923 und ihre F\u00fchrung sind. Das ist nicht unsere Behauptung. Sie haben es nie verheimlicht! Sowohl die PKK als auch die Volksallianz k\u00f6nnten Dutzende von Enzyklop\u00e4dien in diesem Sinne schreiben. Zweifellos gab es auch andere Stimmen (aufrichtige oder nicht aufrichtige), aber das ist eines der Elemente, die den gegenw\u00e4rtigen Prozess kennzeichnen. Sie sprechen von einem B\u00fcndnis zwischen Scheich Said und Iskilipli At\u0131f Hodscha &#8211; das ist nicht falsch.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Wie sind Sie darauf gekommen?<\/b><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Es steht in \u00d6calans Brief. Sehen Sie, aus dem Text geht klar hervor, dass \u00d6calan diesen Brief geschrieben hat, aber dieser Brief wurde von Staatsbeamten analysiert, \u00fcberpr\u00fcft und bis aufs Komma gefiltert. In diesem Brief steht, dass die Republik die Ursache der Kurdenfrage ist. Dar\u00fcber gibt es nichts zu diskutieren. Hier sind sie sich also einig. Aber nicht nur hier. Im selben Brief wird auch mit dem Sozialismus abgerechnet. Es wird unterstellt, dass man vom Realsozialismus beeinflusst oder von der UdSSR in die Irre gef\u00fchrt worden sei. \u00d6calan sagt also gewisserma\u00dfen: \u201eWir waren einmal Sozialisten, das war falsch\u201c. Kann es in dieser Frage ein Problem mit der Volksallianz geben? Hat Erdo\u011fan nicht gleich danach gesagt, die PKK habe fr\u00fcher \u201eeinen kurdischen Staat auf marxistisch-leninistischer Grundlage errichten\u201c wollen? Der Marxismus-Leninismus ist kein Ph\u00e4nomen, das man in alle Richtungen ziehen kann. Wir sagen es nicht jetzt, wir haben es fr\u00fcher gesagt: Die PKK war keine marxistisch-leninistische Organisation, sie war eine nationalistische Organisation.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Mit anderen Worten: Gibt es einen Prozess gegen die Republik und den Sozialismus?<\/b><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ohne Zweifel.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Kann dies nicht m\u00f6glicherweise zu einer Debatte zwischen den Akteuren des Prozesses f\u00fchren?<\/b><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Es gibt Kontroversen, es gibt Spannungen. Etwas anderes w\u00e4re undenkbar. Aber heute scheint es, dass der Widerstand gegen den Kompromiss, von dem wir sprechen, nicht am Verhandlungstisch, sondern in der Gesellschaft zu sp\u00fcren ist. Die Linke in der DEM-Partei hatte den Sozialismus schon vorher aufgegeben. Sie kann sich in dieser kritischen Phase nicht gegen einen osmanischen Frieden stellen, nachdem sie jahrelang gesagt hat: \u201eLasst die Kurdenfrage l\u00f6sen, lasst den Frieden kommen, alles wird gel\u00f6st\u201c. Es gibt einige in der t\u00fcrkischen B\u00fcrokratie, die es nicht verdauen k\u00f6nnen oder besser gesagt nicht verdauen wollen, dass die Republik zum S\u00fcndenbock gemacht wird, aber sie sind zu verblendet, um die Ursache des Problems zu sehen. Sie verstehen nicht, dass der Kapitalismus, die Herrschaft des Kapitals, das Konzept von 1923 loswerden will. Letztlich sind sie davon \u00fcberzeugt, dass das Projekt \u201eRepublik\u201c gescheitert ist und etwas anderes gebraucht wird. Sie glauben, dass der S\u00e4kularismus in diesem Land eine Dysfunktionalit\u00e4t verursacht und den Staat schw\u00e4cht. Es findet ein \u00dcbergang zu einem osmanischen \u201enationalen Projekt\u201c statt.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Ist das denn so einfach?<\/b><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Nein, nat\u00fcrlich nicht. Ich spreche von einer Tendenz, denn dieses Gef\u00fchl kann jeden ergreifen, der mit einem Staatsverst\u00e4ndnis handelt, das den Klassencharakter und die Funktion des \u201eStaates\u201c ignoriert. Aber nein, es wird nicht einfach sein; dieser Prozess in der T\u00fcrkei wird zu sehr harten Spannungen innerhalb des Systems f\u00fchren.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Wird die TKP mit den Elementen des Widerstandes interagieren, die in diesem Prozess sowohl auf politischer als auch auf sozialer Ebene auftreten k\u00f6nnen?<\/b><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Die Linie der TKP ist klar. Unsere Partei besteht darauf, dass die Republik T\u00fcrkei auf legaler Grundlage gegr\u00fcndet wurde. Das stellen wir nicht in Frage. Wir sind gegen jeden Versuch, die Grenzen dieses Landes zu verwischen, ob sie nun erweitert oder verkleinert werden. Wir waren immer gegen F\u00f6deration, Autonomie usw., und jetzt hat auch \u00d6calan gesagt: \u201eDas ist alles falsch\u201c. Wir geh\u00f6ren nicht zu den sogenannten Linken, die alles schlucken m\u00fcssen, was sie bis gestern vertreten haben, nur weil \u00d6calan es gesagt hat. Aber es gibt noch mehr. Wir sind auch gegen Argumente wie \u201eDemokratisierung beginnt auf lokaler Ebene\u201c. Wir sind Republikaner, wir verteidigen den Laizismus im wahrsten Sinne des Wortes. Wir machen keine Kompromisse mit der Herrschaft des Kapitals und der Marktwirtschaft. Wir werden uns nicht an einer Politik oder einem Projekt beteiligen, das den Interessen der imperialistischen L\u00e4nder und Israels dient. Wir tolerieren keinen Osmanismus. Wir k\u00f6nnen uns daher in keiner Weise der \u201erevolution\u00e4ren\u201c Haltung anschlie\u00dfen, die den bewaffneten Kampf der PKK als romantisch und illusion\u00e4r betrachtet und den aktuellen Aufruf zur Niederlegung der Waffen als Verrat oder Kapitulation wertet. Der Verrat ist woanders zu suchen. Das ist unsere Position. Ja, es gibt einen gro\u00dfen Teil in der T\u00fcrkei, der mit dieser Linie einverstanden ist. Und wir bereiten daf\u00fcr auch den Boden. Viele, die gesagt haben: \u201eDas ist ja alles sch\u00f6n und gut, aber die TKP ist sehr sektiererisch\u201c, haben in den letzten Wochen erkannt, dass Prinzipientreue nicht sektiererisch ist, sondern eine Voraussetzung, um in dieser chaotischen Welt zu \u00fcberleben, und haben begonnen, mit uns gemeinsam zu handeln.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Wer ist der Gewinner dieses Prozesses?<\/b><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Die Frage sollte korrigiert werden in &#8220;Wer ist der m\u00f6gliche Gewinner dieses Prozesses?\u201c. Der Prozess ist noch im Gange und niemand wei\u00df, wohin er f\u00fchren wird. Es scheint auch, dass es mehr als einen Gewinner geben wird. Aber wenn der Prozess weitergeht, wird der erste Gewinner die Kapitalistenklasse sein. Man k\u00f6nnte sagen: \u201eDie TKP macht die Bosse f\u00fcr alle m\u00f6glichen schlechten Dinge verantwortlich\u201c. Dagegen ist nichts einzuwenden. Schlie\u00dflich ist das Ausbeutungssystem die Ursache allen \u00dcbels. Ich wiederhole: Der Gewinner dieses Prozesses ist in erster Linie die Kapitalistenklasse. Die Anerkennung der AKP-T\u00fcrkei durch eine \u201et\u00fcrkisch-kurdische Vers\u00f6hnung\u201c n\u00fctzt nur ihr. Der osmanische Frieden bedeutet, dass die T\u00fcrkei ihr wirtschaftliches Gewicht in den L\u00e4ndern, in denen Kurden leben, erh\u00f6hen wird. Das bedeutet neue Pl\u00fcnderungs- und Ausbeutungsgebiete. Und dann ist da noch Israel.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Aber die Regierung sagt, sie w\u00fcrde Israel einen Strich durch die Rechnung machen.<\/b><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Was war Israels Problem? Die Beseitigung der Faktoren, die seine so genannte Sicherheit, also seine expansionistische Politik, bedrohen oder einschr\u00e4nken. In Syrien ist das Regime gest\u00fcrzt worden. Beide Seiten des Prozesses wollten jahrelang einen Regimewechsel in Syrien. Das ist ihnen gelungen. Israel ist in Syrien einmarschiert. Es gibt einen direkten Zusammenhang zwischen dem Sturz von Assad in Syrien und dem Prozess in unserem Land. Au\u00dferdem hat die Agenda des Prozesses die aggressive Haltung der Regierung gegen\u00fcber dem Iran verst\u00e4rkt. Zuletzt forderte der Iran eine Erkl\u00e4rung zu den \u00c4u\u00dferungen von Au\u00dfenminister Hakan Fidan. Syrien und der Iran haben f\u00fcr Israel Priorit\u00e4t. Kann das Zufall sein? Aber das ist nicht alles. Barzani ist heute der Akteur in der Region, \u00fcber den sich Israel, die USA und die T\u00fcrkei offen und vielleicht am meisten einig sind. Der Barzani-Clan ist eine der kollaborativsten und strategischsten Kr\u00e4fte in unserer Region. Die PKK stand jahrelang in Rivalit\u00e4t zu ihm und ist nun mit Barzani vereint. Gleichzeitig w\u00e4chst Barzanis Einfluss in der T\u00fcrkei rapide. Insofern geh\u00f6rt Barzani auch zu den Gewinnern des Prozesses.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Und die USA?<\/b><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Welche USA? In den USA findet derzeit ein sehr, sehr heftiger Kampf statt. Da dieser Kampf in dem Land stattfindet, das an der Spitze des imperialistischen Systems steht, betrifft er alle Seiten. In diesem Sinne ist es zu fr\u00fch, um schnelle internationale Urteile \u00fcber die USA zu f\u00e4llen. Aber wenn eine Antwort notwendig ist: Ja, auch die USA haben gewonnen.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Aus der Sicht der Kurdenfrage: Ist sie nun gel\u00f6st? Oder wird sie gel\u00f6st werden?<\/b><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Wir haben jahrelang gesagt, dass es keine separate Kurdenfrage geben kann, und einige Besserwisser haben uns daf\u00fcr beschimpft. Die Kurdenfrage ist eine Klassenfrage, ein Widerspruch zwischen Arbeit und Kapital; die Kurdenfrage ist eine Frage der Aufkl\u00e4rung; die Kurdenfrage ist eine Frage des Imperialismus. Nat\u00fcrlich gibt es eine gesonderte Kategorie der Forderungen der Kurden nach Rechten und Freiheiten, aber diese k\u00f6nnen nicht unabh\u00e4ngig von den oben genannten Aspekten betrachtet werden. Sonst verf\u00e4llt man in Sch\u00f6nrederei \u00fcber den Aufstand von Scheich Said, der ein reaktion\u00e4rer Aufstand war. Was wird nun geschehen? Wahrscheinlich werden einige \u00c4nderungen an der Verfassung vorgenommen. Einige Artikel werden diskutiert. Sie werden einige Anmerkungen streichen oder versuchen, sie zu streichen. Da sie sich darauf geeinigt haben, die Republik f\u00fcr die Kurdenfrage verantwortlich zu machen, werden sie sie anfechten. F\u00fcr uns bedeutet die Kurdenfrage, mehr kurdische und t\u00fcrkische Arme oder alle Armen, die in diesem Land leben, gegen die Konglomerate, Sekten und St\u00e4mme zu positionieren. Es bedeutet, gegen diejenigen, die versuchen, eine t\u00fcrkisch-kurdische Br\u00fcderlichkeit zu schaffen, indem sie sich gegen die Republik stellen, Br\u00fcderlichkeit zu schaffen, indem wir die Idee der Republik wieder und gemeinsam st\u00e4rken. Wir sehen, dass viele kurdische Arbeiter:innen und Werkt\u00e4tige entt\u00e4uscht sind. Daf\u00fcr gibt es keinen Grund. Dieser Weg war ohnehin der falsche. Jetzt ist die Zeit gekommen, das osmanische Projekt durch ein sozialistisch-republikanisches Projekt zu ersetzen: ein egalit\u00e4res, industrialisiertes, entwickeltes, souver\u00e4nes, aufgekl\u00e4rtes und unabh\u00e4ngiges Land. Ist das nicht viel realistischer und fortschrittlicher als der Versuch, aus den Kriegen von vor 1000 Jahren Br\u00fcderlichkeit ableiten zu wollen?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><b>Abschlie\u00dfend stellen wir die Frage nach der pers\u00f6nlichen Rolle von Devlet Bah\u00e7eli in diesem Prozess. Welche Bedeutung hat sie?<\/b><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jeder sagt etwas dazu, aber ich m\u00f6chte daran erinnern, dass die Partei, die Devlet Bah\u00e7eli f\u00fchrt, ein sehr wichtiges Zentrum in der ideologischen Gestaltung des Systems in der T\u00fcrkei ist und ein gro\u00dfer Teil der Gesellschaft auf die Referenzen schaut, die von diesem Zentrum ausgehen. Der \u00dcbergang der MHP in der Vergangenheit vom Turkismus zur t\u00fcrkisch-islamischen Synthese war sehr wichtig. Die t\u00fcrkisch-islamische Synthese wurde \u00fcber einen langen Zeitraum zur System- und Staatslinie. Jetzt spielt die MHP wieder eine Rolle beim Versuch, den \u00dcbergang zur t\u00fcrkisch-islamisch-kurdischen Synthese zu vollziehen. Ich denke, man muss das aus dieser Perspektive sehen: Was die Rechte \u00fcber Jahre gepr\u00e4gt hat, waren Nationalismus und Religiosit\u00e4t. Der N\u00e4hrboden der t\u00fcrkischen Rechten und der Sekten ist vor allem das kurdische Gebiet. Ein gro\u00dfer Teil der Sekten kommt von dort. Je weiter man sich von der Idee der Republik entfernt, desto mehr \u00f6ffnet sich der Weg zu einer t\u00fcrkisch-islamisch-kurdischen Synthese.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\">\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\">\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\">***<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><strong>\u0645\u0642\u0627\u0628\u0644\u0629 \u0645\u0639 \u0627\u0644\u0623\u0645\u064a\u0646 \u0627\u0644\u0639\u0627\u0645 \u0644\u0644\u062d\u0632\u0628 \u0627\u0644\u0634\u064a\u0648\u0639\u064a \u0627\u0644\u062a\u0631\u0643\u064a \u0643\u0645\u0627\u0644 \u0623\u0648\u0643\u0648\u064a\u0627\u0646 \u062d\u0648\u0644 \u0639\u0645\u0644\u064a\u0629 \u0627\u0644\u062d\u0644<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p dir=\"rtl\"><strong>\ufee3\u0646 \u0627\ufedf\ufe97\u0648\ufedf\ufbfe\u0641 \u0627\ufedf\ufe97\u0631\ufedb\ufef2 \u0627\ufef9\ufeb3\ufefc\ufee3\ufef2 \u0625\ufedf\ufef0 \u0627\ufedf\ufe97\u0648\ufedf\ufbfe\u0641 \u0627\ufedf\ufe97\u0631\ufedb\ufef2 \u0627\ufef9\ufeb3\ufefc\ufee3\ufef2 \u0627\ufedf\ufedb\u0631\u062f\u064a\u2026 \u06be\u0630\u0647 \u0627\ufedf\ufecc\ufee3\ufee0\ufbfe\ufe94 \u0647\u0648 \ufedf\ufecc\ufe9b\ufee3\ufe8e\ufee7\ufbfe\ufe94.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p dir=\"rtl\">\n<p dir=\"rtl\">\u062f\u0639\u0648\u0646\u0627 \u0646\u0628\u062f\u0623 \u0628\u0647\u0630\u0627 \u0627\u0644\u0633\u0624\u0627\u0644 \u0641\u064a \u0628\u064a\u0626\u0629 \u064a\u0633\u0623\u0644 \u0641\u064a\u0647\u0627 \u0627\u0644\u062c\u0645\u064a\u0639 \u0628\u0639\u0636\u0647\u0645 \u0627\u0644\u0628\u0639\u0636\u201d \u0647\u0644 \u062a\u0624\u064a\u062f \u0623\u0648 \u062a\u0639\u0627\u0631\u0636 \u0639\u0645\u0644\u064a\u0629 \u0627\u0644\u062d\u0644 \u0627\u0644\u062c\u062f\u064a\u062f\u0629. \u201c \u0643\u064a\u0641 \u064a\u0646\u0638\u0631 \u0627\u0644\u062d\u0632\u0628 \u0627\u0644\u0634\u064a\u0648\u0639\u064a \u0627\u0644\u062a\u0631\u0643\u064a \u0625\u0644\u0649 \u0647\u0630\u0647 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So, let&#8217;s start from here: How does TKP view this new process? &nbsp; Each time a new political agenda occurs, our people are bombarded with such questions, and [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":25,"featured_media":24485,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"gallery","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[255,258],"tags":[1758,1759,1720,1722,1721],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.7 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Interview with Kemal Okuyan on Solution Process in Kurdish Issue: This is outright OTTOMANISM - T\u00fcrkiye Kom\u00fcnist Partisi<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.tkp.org.tr\/en\/agenda\/interview-with-kemal-okuyan-on-solution-process-in-kurdish-issue-this-is-outright-ottomanism\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Interview with Kemal Okuyan on Solution Process in Kurdish Issue: This is outright OTTOMANISM - T\u00fcrkiye Kom\u00fcnist Partisi\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"From the Turkish-Islamic synthesis to the Turkish-Islamic-Kurdish synthesis&#8230;\u2028 This is outright OTTOMANISM &nbsp; Nowadays, everyone asks everyone else: &#8220;Do you support or oppose the new Solution Process?&#8221;. 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